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Author Topic: Position statement in regards of Joomla License Statement and FAQ  (Read 18544 times)
Adam
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« on: June 15, 2007, 03:53:45 PM »

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The Joomla Commercial Developer's Alliance would like to thank the members of all the teams that gave of their time to arrive at and compose this license FAQ and statement so that the Joomla! community could better understand the Joomla! License and it's implications.

We are naturally disappointed that the implied Gentleman's Agreement which has been in place for so long, and the promised Rider that we had hoped would replace it has not materialised. It had been this expectation of protection from litigation that had helped to build such a vibrant and growing network of commercially licensed extensions around the framework of Joomla, and the lack of this protection is likely to stifle further growth in this area.

Whilst we appreciate the clarification made in this statement we deny that extensions that are designed to work with Joomla can be considered derivative simply by their nature. Our advice and research indicate that there is plenty of legal argument that supports this view and we would invite Open Source Matters to open communications with us regarding this matter. To that end we would like to encourage all Joomla Commercial Developers to continue developing their code for the Joomla 1.0.x series.

We continue to maintain some misgivings about points raised within the Joomla community regarding commercial developers and their contribution to said community. There have been allegations that commercial developers do not give back to the community however these allegations are based around the assumption that any giving back to the community has merit only if it is in the form of financial contributions. There are numerous examples of commercial developers providing support in the Joomla forums and other Joomla sites, not to mention on their own forums. It could also be argued that simply the existence of their extensions provides considerable value add to the viability of Joomla as a platform.

We are particularly disappointed by those Core Team members who declined to enter the debate and help to clarify the comments being made regarding the status of the rider. This would have saved a lot of time in the discussion. We note that they have all made statements now and are particularly disappointed that they have chosen to represent the actions of a former Core Team member, Founder of Joomla and OSM Director, as illegal.

Finally, we would encourage the Core team to consider removing the statement

* @copyright Copyright (C) 2005 Open Source Matters. All rights reserved.

from all files that this affects in the Joomla distribution as statements made by members of the Joomla core indicate that this is inaccurate.

Again, we would like again to thank the Joomla Core, Open Source Matters and everybody at the Software Freedom Law Center for their input into this matter.

Joomla Commercial Developer's Alliance

This statement is in reply to

http://www.joomla.org/content/view/3510/1/
http://dev.joomla.org/content/view/2336/102/

From: http://jcd-a.org/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/topic,139.0/

Now, what will this mean concrete for my components:
- I will not start working on making my components compatible with Joomla 1.5 for now
- I will start building a LGPL framework which will act as a replacement to Joomla's core features, using this library I can comply with the GPL compatibility, while keeping the freedom to license components in a way I wish.
- Using this framework isn't a bad thing, it will eventually allow my users to run components standalone, on mambo and who knows what other CMS as well
- I will be switching the license for my Creative Commons licensed components to the Joomla-Addons Free Software License which is more clear about what is allowed and what isn't (license content can be found here: http://www.joomla-addons.org/joomla-addons-free-software-license.html).
- I will start releasing a great part of the Hosting Customers un-encoded allowing people to make modifications to the code. The site licensing part will remain encrypted.

I would like to stress out that we WILL keep supporting anyone that uses our components, modules and plugins and that we will keep developing for Joomla, Mambo and other CMS's.

Game on Smiley

Adam
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 04:09:25 PM by Adam » Logged

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carsten888
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2007, 02:29:39 PM »

I totally agree with you.

Do you think the core team is trying to stop commercial developers by placing the copyright notice in 1.5? If so, that would be a shame.
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Adam
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2007, 04:11:46 PM »

I don't know the exact plans of the core team since I'm not on it Tongue

I do know they are not against commercial developers, just against commercial developers not wanting to comply with their wishes. GPL commercial components will remain allowed. I don't see a future in that though.

If I put a month of work into a great component and release it under a GPL license and charge something for it (in a similar way is with EasyComment now), anyone can take that component and re-distribute it for free and I can do nothing against that. In the current situation I can forbid people to do that. It's a risk I cannot take.
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2007, 08:39:07 PM »

Hello Adam,

after reading your new 'license' i have to ask (like it was done at the joomla forum yesterday) [theroretical case]:

you are allowing others do work on your code - for myself and for others:
Quote
Modify the work for your clients use
Now the other is a client of me - paying me for the work.
He is not owing the IPs which still stay intact (yours, mine, etc.).

The client is giving away the work he bought from me (the reworked component originally from you).
The work is finding the market as 'derivat' of xxxxx (you say ...).

What happen in this case, because i did the work, but did not know that my client is giving this work away (as derivat or not).

And - another (additional) case - you see the new code and want to use what i have made - but i am not allowing this.
But this is a major improvement of your original and the idea behind is not to copy otherwise you are breaking laws.

This 'new' component is out now (see above) and is not to stop - what to do?

Theroretical ......
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Adam
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 08:45:07 PM »

1) Your client is violating the license by redistributing the modifications

Quote
Copy and re-distribute the work as is

Technically, either you or me can ask him to stop.
You because you own the copyrights of your own changes, Me because he's violating the license the original was released under.

If he will not comply to your or mine request.. You or Me could sue him.

2) I can't include your code if you do not allow me Smiley You own the copyrights to that.
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2007, 09:25:43 PM »

To be honest - i am really tired of reading hundreds of posts since a few days - and the wheel is moving in a circle.
Additionally posting i 2 forums at the same time  ....

Adam, it was 'theroretically'!

But, you have not read my question - or not answering correct: i do not know that my client is giving away that 'new' work he paid for.
Hi does not know anthing about licenses, he is just a consumer!

The moment i - and you - will recognize that this work is on the 'market' (free or not) it is out and not to stop.

I am now closing any further comments in this issue - if you want you know where to reach me.

cu - michael
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Adam
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 11:38:16 PM »

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Adam, it was 'theroretically'!

I know that. My reply was based on that as well.
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2007, 02:38:45 PM »

Hi,

A litle late reply from me.

Adam, I beleve that I have to agree with you. I quote the Joomla Core Team (From: http://www.joomla.org/content/view/3510/1/):
Quote
It is our opinion that most extensions are derivative works of Joomla! and must be licensed under the GNU GPL.

So, they are saying that if work A uses work B it is a derivatived from work A. This seems very strange to me. Becausethe there is no line of code from the work A in work B. So, you could see it that if you make a Microsoft Windows program that it is a derivative from Windows.

But still it is a pity, that we can't expect Joomla 1.5 components from your hand.
Subpy
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Adam
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2007, 02:51:39 PM »

But still it is a pity, that we can't expect Joomla 1.5 components from your hand.
wouldn't count on that too hard :p
the framework I'm working on will be compatible with mambo, joomla 1.0, joomla 1.5 and others so..
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2007, 03:05:11 PM »

That is realy gread news!  Grin
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« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2007, 04:07:44 PM »

They are these lots of great extensions that make Joomla! a good CMS. A good choice.

Never had picked J! if there was no Joomfish or facileforms, etc, etc...

hmm...
I am happy with 1.0.13, don't need 1.5 but haven't seen it yet.
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2007, 02:02:39 PM »

WOW! I have been away from the Joomla community for many months due to real life pressures and entirely missed this debate. I will have to put aside some now to catch myself up on the issues and it looks like that is going to require a LOT of heavy reading ((((gulp))))

One thing seems certain, is that this might have some very grave repercussions and I hope it does not impact too badly on your enthusiasm for what you do Adam. You are my best example of the point made in this statement about there being "numerous examples of commercial developers providing support in the Joomla forums and other Joomla sites, not to mention on their own forums."

I think I am correct in my feeling that the quality of the tech support you so tirelessly offer us here in these forums has never been influenced (and never would) by any profit that you derive from your works. The support I have observed you giving here is easily ten times better than any paid support I have ever had for some commercial computer product.

I hope this all turns out well in the long-term so that all parties feel like they can have a fair deal from this outcome.

All the best!
Zana
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Adam
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2007, 03:05:32 PM »

be glad you missed it Smiley

I doubt there will actually be a lawsuit over this anytime soon, but we'll have to see what happens

I hope it does not impact too badly on your enthusiasm for what you do Adam.
already passed that point.
my framework is moving along nicely and I'm currently rebuilding EasyFAQ with the new framework.
should be ready for release not to far from now..
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